tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post1814190500303910995..comments2023-12-28T13:11:06.666+00:00Comments on Pics and Poems: Copy that, copycat! Lascaux and all that.Dave Kinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-48884707524624622932012-12-25T10:48:09.145+00:002012-12-25T10:48:09.145+00:00This skin care product does not have any artificia...This skin care product does not have any artificial ingredients or fragrances which would cause irritation on the skin or block pores. [url=http://www.mulberryhandbagssale.co.uk]mulberry outlet[/url In the red sand stone of which the valley is composed, are upwards of two hundred and fifty sepulchres entirely cut out of the rock, the greater part of them with Grecian ornaments. [url=http://www.goosecoatsale.ca]canada goose online[/url] Gwmcqqwun <br />[url=http://www.pandorajewelryvip.co.uk]pandora Sale[/url] Cltiiwhuk [url=http://www.officialcanadagooseparkae.com]canada goose jacket sale[/url] cyrgzrxfxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-41571278804037852902010-02-01T21:33:15.310+00:002010-02-01T21:33:15.310+00:00Good day, sun shines!
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Thank you for that, Julie. I do envy you h...<b>Julie70</b><br />Thank you for that, Julie. I do envy you having seen Lascaux. It must have been an amazing experience. I think that part of the experience which consists of a certain feeling of connectiveness with the original artists is what my <i>purists</i> treasure to the point of not wanting Lascaux II without Lascaux i.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-31336570942474027682009-08-06T09:55:24.254+01:002009-08-06T09:55:24.254+01:00I have been and visited Lascaux (the replica) and ...I have been and visited Lascaux (the replica) and was there with someone who in his childhood has been and seen the original one too, until too many tourist come it lasted without problems.<br /><br />Anyway, the place (replica or not) is stunning and does remind us that art did not begin with Renaissance or new waves! It also gave us the feeling of the people and humanity that does not change so much as we do think and that the 'barbarians' where not so barbarian or simplistic after all.<br /><br />As of recreating the Last Supper - it has already be done so many times! in so many imitations and so many different places and ways!<br /><br />So what?<br /><br />We all learn from each other and from what was before us and leave what we do to those after us to use (and if we are really lucky to remember).Julie Kertesz - me - moi - jkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09196066571782981915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-80557743419788042652009-08-05T11:12:09.985+01:002009-08-05T11:12:09.985+01:00Titus
Aye, so be it. Nowt wrong with (some) react...<b>Titus </b><br />Aye, so be it. Nowt wrong with (some) reactionaries!<br /><br /><b>Derrick </b><br />It just occurred to me reading your post that we are all replacements - in that we've hardly any of the cells we had even a few years ago. Is that any different from replacing the stones in the Parthenon? Copying is another issue, I grant you.<br /><br /><b>Heather </b><br />Thanks for that Heather, I think maybe the majority the majority agree with you.<br /><br /><b>Pi </b><br />My heart says so, but something whispers that I have to reconcile that with whatever it is in me that goes along with Jim.<br /><br /><b>Conda </b><br />Mmm, I think you might be able to say that copying is another form of the transformation process.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-16493253228700194632009-08-04T20:41:55.953+01:002009-08-04T20:41:55.953+01:00I'm all for making as accurate copies as possi...I'm all for making as accurate copies as possible with our technology. I'm upset that the originals are disappearing, but on one level, I don't believe art, especially the primal type of art, ever disappears, it's merely transformed.Conda Douglashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12972790965426924941noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-14159731720762866482009-08-04T19:12:10.271+01:002009-08-04T19:12:10.271+01:00I agree with Purest Green. It is so sad to have a...I agree with Purest Green. It is so sad to have art vanish without trace.Pathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01529798893653033970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-61822748274401242702009-08-04T15:00:36.474+01:002009-08-04T15:00:36.474+01:00What a fascinating and thought provoking post. I t...What a fascinating and thought provoking post. I think a copy of an original is better than nothing. Many people might be unable to get to see the original - at least seeing a copy would allow them to appreciate it's beauty and the skill of the artist. If making a copy might save the original from disintegration or at least preserve it for a little longer, then surely there is no contest.Heatherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06826501916623305535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-27001183662528085792009-08-04T12:13:34.459+01:002009-08-04T12:13:34.459+01:00Hi Dave,
A big discussion here! We seem to copy j...Hi Dave,<br /><br />A big discussion here! We seem to copy just about everything. Much of the stonework of the Parthenon has been/is being replaced because of corrosion. What makes it any different to a Disney stage set? The wonder is in the original. If we look at a replica of The Last Supper, we can no longer marvel at Da Vinci's talent. I see no purpose in slavishly trying to copy it. Preserve the original for as long as possible, yes. But then show a modern reproduction, even a projected image. I don't say copies are bad just that we can never capture the original and shouldn't try.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00861397533660827678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-32504208848535860202009-08-04T12:04:52.515+01:002009-08-04T12:04:52.515+01:00Oh, I'm the old reactionary. Original heart-s...Oh, I'm the old reactionary. Original heart-stopping. Copy of interest, and better than nowt, but that's all.Titushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16380213493011623153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-61346741245772630862009-08-04T11:27:37.983+01:002009-08-04T11:27:37.983+01:00Barry
I, too, have not had the experience of seei...<b>Barry </b><br />I, too, have not had the experience of seeing either Lascaux in situ, so to speak, and so, like yourself, must speak in general terms, but I do find it difficult to conceive how we can be worse off with the copy!<br /><br /><b>Willow </b><br />Yes, it's difficult to disagree with te main position. The fascination of the topic for me lies in the side issues that it opens up.<br /><br /><b>A Cuban in London </b><br />Thanks for that. I could not help thinking, as I read your second paragraph, of child art which may or may not have been intended for the eyes of others. Usuallly we make no distinction, but just regard it all as art. Thanks for a very pertinent comment.<br /><br /><b>Linda </b><br />A very telling point, I think, made by your second sentence. One that tends to be overlooked.<br /><br />I agree with you about the wild life and the damage we are doing to the planet. I wonder whether linking the two concepts might make others heed it a little more????<br /><br /><b>Mary </b><br />Hi Mary and welcome. Thanks for your contribution. A useful addition to the views, I think.<br /><br /><b>Jim </b><br />Part of me - a large part - agrees with your main point. I do think the images more important than the brushstrokes, but I suppose some would say that can only apply to the photographic (2-D) images, for the images of Lascaux II, while more closely recreating the experience, are not as faithful to the originals which depend so heavily on unique topography. I'm not sure that I agree with that, but I think it is the gist of what is being said.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-29454203511552167152009-08-04T09:18:43.728+01:002009-08-04T09:18:43.728+01:00I've always been a wee bit puzzled by Man'...I've always been a wee bit puzzled by Man's need to preserve. I look at my flat just now and I don't think I have anything that belonged to me before the age of thirteen. Indeed I will have thrown away more than the flat I'm in currently holds. It has always surprised me how when one of these periodic culls takes place what survives only to get tossed perhaps only a couple of years later. The point I'm making is that things have their time. Decay is a part of existence and I'm not sure why we fight it. That the cave paintings have lasted as long is indeed something but if they're lost tomorrow then they're lost. Calling it a "terrible loss" is just a label we choose to attach to it. It is all the loss it is ever going to be. Perhaps I'm a Philistine but these paintings have been recorded for posterity. They will not be forgotten. Is it <i>so</i> important to have the original? Are the images not more important than the brush strokes?Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-9186271049009170872009-08-04T02:46:34.213+01:002009-08-04T02:46:34.213+01:00David, you spend your time in fascinating thought....David, you spend your time in fascinating thought. If not Lascaux II, I would want some record for historical purposes of those wonderful ritualistic paintings. I would be satisfied with paper documentation, but I think it is important not to lose our past, even the part that was not intended for public display. For many people, seeing a tangible reproduction helps them connect with the past. So I would vote not to destroy Lascaux II.Mary Paquethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05847021818957221109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-30982354953148359782009-08-04T02:43:13.544+01:002009-08-04T02:43:13.544+01:00A work of art is an expression of a time and place...A work of art is an expression of a time and place. If you are not living in the time and place in which the art was created, you have lost most of the magic anyway. Will future generations be more disturbed by the loss of what we consider irreplaceable works of art or by the way we ignored global warming and lost half the species of animals alive during our time and place here? We CAN manage to create a magicless replica- Last Supper 2. What ever do we do about orangutans?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03241402645242821612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-48831639572685996252009-08-03T23:25:18.923+01:002009-08-03T23:25:18.923+01:00No to your first question and yes to the second on...No to your first question and yes to the second one.<br /><br />Th cave paintings were not meant to be seen, as you rightly stated. So, as much as it pains us to lose a piece of monumentally archaeological importance it has no artistic merit beyond its production. We, modern humans, are bestowing our artistic interests in the piece.<br /><br />The Leonardo artwork should be copied if the alternative is to lose it forever. Da Vinci DID intend his art to be seen and appreciated as art. So, it has not just a historical meaning but also an artistic one.<br /><br />Excellent post. I thoroughly enjoyed it.<br /><br />Greetings from London.A Cuban In Londonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16423293358605007539noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-27525925112422446192009-08-03T21:00:11.550+01:002009-08-03T21:00:11.550+01:00Interesting food for thought here, as usual, Dave....Interesting food for thought here, as usual, Dave. I would have to agree with many of the commenters before me, in that a copy of the original piece of art is better than nothing at all.Tess Kincaidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04889725786678984293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-26378273166372217172009-08-03T18:10:21.535+01:002009-08-03T18:10:21.535+01:00Unlike Science Girl I have never been to Lascaux (...Unlike Science Girl I have never been to Lascaux (I or II) so my experience has been limited to photographic copies with little pretense at offering anything but the most remote hint of the reality of either.<br /><br />Am I better off for having had even this most remote experience of these works of art.<br /><br />You betcha for sure Dave! And not just in some faint and tepid way.Barryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13824632356834631279noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-85876582106654768262009-08-03T12:34:11.963+01:002009-08-03T12:34:11.963+01:00Karen
It's a very far off thought, but I like ...<b>Karen</b><br />It's a very far off thought, but I like it - I like far off thoughts. I think you're saying that if it's worthwhile in its own right, keep it! I agree.<br /><br /><b>PurestGreen </b><br />Hi, welcome and thanks. Your last sentence appeals to me very much indeed.<br /><br /><b>ladytruth </b><br />Unfinished in that sense, I'd take it every time, but I see it might be different for a fan.<br /><br /><b>steven </b><br />Yes, I take the points you make there. In the case of Lascaux part of the magic is that we are (were) looking at art worl done all those ages back by people that we are apt to think of as primitive. That magic must be lost in translation - and it seems that for some that is the magic that matters.<br /><br /><b>The Weaver of Grass </b><br />You remind me of the time when I found a flint axe on a geography field trip. There was real magic in the romance of its age and how it had come to be where I found it, but as in your example, frequent handling dimmed the feelings.<br /><br /><b>Science Girl </b><br />The thinking that if a privileged few can't view the real cave, then nobody can view anything at all, is pretty empty. hanks for that, that seems to sum it up nicely.<br /><br /> <b>Meri </b><br />No, but some might argue that the books of the Bible do not depend upon their status as works of art to justify their survival. (I agree with your conclusion, though.)<br /><br /><b>Carl </b><br />Absolutely.<br /><br /><b>Mark </b><br />Your questions take the discussion to a new and even more fascinating level, I think. Thanks for that.<br /><br /><b>Friko </b><br />My first reaction, reading of the sad state of the paintings was exactly as you have expressed your own. I agree with your conclusion and am very envious of your husband!<br /><br /><b>gleaner </b><br />Interesting points you raise there for me personally: when I first began to draw and paint seiously I had a habit of thickening and/or darkening the outlines to the point where I would lose much of the life and subtlety that I had to begin with. I knew at the time that what was almost an obsession was related to my fears of impermanence.<br /><br /><b>lakeviewer </b><br />Thanks for that. There does seem to be more unanimity in blogland than outside it!<br /><br /><b>readingsully2 </b><br />Sorry, don't agree. The tree falling in the wood does not make anoise. It sets up air waves, that's all. The waves are only translated into noise within the brain.<br /><br />As for the Last Supper, yes there are photographic copies, but not actual-size ones, I think, intended to give the same experience as standing before the original. I agree with your conclusions.<br /><br /><b>Eryl </b><br />Absolutely agree - and yes, I think the purists are suggesting exactly that. Presumably that the copy will give future generations a wrong image of the paintings (due to the discrepancies between the two that I mentioned.) Thanks for the comment.<br /><br /><b>Mariana </b><br />What a fantastic story, Mariana! Thank you so much for sharing it with us. Fabulous!<br /><br /><b>Jeanne </b><br />But yes, I think I do get a "glimmer" of what you are driving at. Many thanks. i will give it some thought.<br /><br /><b>Sciencegirl </b><br />I appreciate what you are saying and agree with it almost entirely, but am just a little worried about the technique and materials bit. It was Leonardo's choice of materials that caused the deterioration, as I said, almost from day 1. But that initself raises an interesting question. Should we try to preserve or "improve"? Wow, there's one for the purists!!Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.com