tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post4001136844159039728..comments2023-12-28T13:11:06.666+00:00Comments on Pics and Poems: Another Garden of EdenDave Kinghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-38586663442804965302008-11-19T08:52:00.000+00:002008-11-19T08:52:00.000+00:00DickI used to think that, like British Rail, we we...Dick<BR/>I used to think that, like British Rail, we were getting there - slowly - but look what happened to them!Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-20463854565845574602008-11-19T08:50:00.000+00:002008-11-19T08:50:00.000+00:00FiendishI do sympathise with your difficulty. we d...Fiendish<BR/><BR/>I do sympathise with your difficulty. we do so underestimate children, and especially those from other cultures and/or with special difficulties. We tend to judge them by what they can manage of our culture or in our terms, but there is a whole world of abilities that never gets tapped. It is the same for us as well. Probably none of us is ever called upon to use his/her full range of abilities. So they never do see the light of day. It is possible for the so-called slow learner to get very close to the average in terms of achievement, but s/he has to get much closer to his/her full potential to do so.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-47291637005499595572008-11-19T06:47:00.000+00:002008-11-19T06:47:00.000+00:00The triumph of education over schooling - a rare ...The triumph of education over schooling - a rare enough occurrence within the Gordian mess that comprises our 'education system' - and on your watch, Dave. 'Educare' - to draw out. Credit where it's due, prof!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-50876711662608502742008-11-18T18:01:00.000+00:002008-11-18T18:01:00.000+00:00What a fascinating child. It is so difficult to be...What a fascinating child. It is so difficult to believe that he said all this, or that he was only ten or eleven - but it doesn't matter particularly whether I believe it or not. It's a perfect post. :)Fiendishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06427088675092430747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-31702621431665215732008-11-18T08:50:00.000+00:002008-11-18T08:50:00.000+00:00HopeYou are absolutely right about sticking on lab...Hope<BR/>You are absolutely right about sticking on labels - self-sticking ones, usually. I always required staff to be specific; to say in what circumstances he was <I>stupid</I>, impatient, hyper-active, unimaginative etc. A child can show one set of characteristics in Art (for example) and quite another in, say, History.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-71644724995477970942008-11-18T08:45:00.000+00:002008-11-18T08:45:00.000+00:00McGuireYou make me feel guilty. I have not written...McGuire<BR/><BR/>You make me feel guilty. I have not written up my profile as I should have. I will try to do so within the next week. Thanks for your interest.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-43742485663284303822008-11-18T08:43:00.000+00:002008-11-18T08:43:00.000+00:00Weaver of GrassI have been wondering exactly that,...Weaver of Grass<BR/>I have been wondering exactly that, specifically, if he could (has) read the posy, would he recognise himself?<BR/><BR/>At the time, calling these children E.S.N. was an enlightened move: before that they were a sub-category of the Mentally Deficient. Children were examined <I>for a disability of the mind</I> - the phrase was there on the form for the parents to read.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-20909260742353745572008-11-17T23:32:00.000+00:002008-11-17T23:32:00.000+00:00Interesting that kids have so much to share and ar...Interesting that kids have so much to share and are often "shut up" by a system which takes a quick look and slaps on a label. I bet many of "your kids" have fond memories of you Dave, for being an adult who allowed them to blossom at their own rate.<BR/><BR/>I thought about you the other day when an 8 year old boy in the After School program was having difficulty with homework. The Director there is not well educated or patient. She looked at this kid, who has an attention span problem, and told him if he was going to be stupid, she was done. He looked so crushed! I gave him a moment to pull himself together, then asked what he was working on. Without any pressure to perform, he pointed out what was stumping him and we worked on it together. When we were done, he asked if I thought he was stupid. With a smile I shook my head and told him everyone learns differently. He looked at the other woman and said, "Some people don't learn."<BR/><BR/>It was all I could do not to give him a standing ovation. :)hopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03306622656461205674noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-60315370871521721012008-11-17T20:50:00.000+00:002008-11-17T20:50:00.000+00:00Very interesting story about a boy with learning d...Very interesting story about a boy with learning difficulties. I'll be rereading this. <BR/><BR/>Always interesting to read you David. I shall be looking through the Archive here. I want to know a bit more about you. <BR/><BR/>Clearly, you were a teacher, you are a poet and an essayist. I have much to catch up on.McGuirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095242258892600138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-41626651384623187462008-11-17T19:03:00.000+00:002008-11-17T19:03:00.000+00:00Dick - and this child was classed ESN as they call...Dick - and this child was classed ESN as they called it in those days. If only you could have harnessed this talk - but then we have all taught kids like this. Wonder where he is now and what he is doing?!The Weaver of Grasshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13947971556343746883noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-16749885670526293632008-11-17T10:15:00.000+00:002008-11-17T10:15:00.000+00:00LucyForgot to say that this particular session was...Lucy<BR/><BR/>Forgot to say that this particular session was recorded for the psychologist. Not a great feat of memory!Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-65865081747318393452008-11-17T09:33:00.000+00:002008-11-17T09:33:00.000+00:00Linda SueMany thanks for the encouraging comments....Linda Sue<BR/><BR/>Many thanks for the encouraging comments. You are right, it is a universal story. Universal in both senses - in its inclusiveness and in its applicability.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-64308550056627651522008-11-17T09:29:00.000+00:002008-11-17T09:29:00.000+00:00Lucy Do you know, I hadn't associated that with gl...Lucy <BR/>Do you know, I hadn't associated that with global warming? (This was the mid 60's. At that time the scientists were warning us all of imminent global <I>cooling</I>!) I had taken <I>hot air</I> to mean empty talk. (From the psychologist in the white coat?) It was the stars in their courses spinning round the twigs that bowled me over.<BR/>Thanks for the compliment, but you have to remember that these were all disadvantaged children, though a few - a very few - had an exceptional side to them which only appeared under certain conditions - eg, when given completely free rein, as here, something which probably had never happened before, certainly not at school!Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-4444441608703423152008-11-17T09:17:00.000+00:002008-11-17T09:17:00.000+00:00Art DurkeeAgreed, but it was the stories they didn...Art Durkee<BR/><BR/>Agreed, but it was the stories they <I>didn't</I> know that surprised me.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-36003425454082680122008-11-17T09:15:00.000+00:002008-11-17T09:15:00.000+00:00That sounds sadly familiar. I was reading only the...That sounds sadly familiar. I was reading only the other day that 40,000 (I think it was) children of 5 or under had been excluded from school. Hopefully, not all permanently, but even so...Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-10705837406123323922008-11-17T09:13:00.000+00:002008-11-17T09:13:00.000+00:00AnairamI am sure that is a large part of the answe...Anairam<BR/>I am sure that is a large part of the answer, but it came as a bit of a shock initially to find children in this (that!) day and age who could not begin to tell me who Jesus was, yet had a passing knowledge of Genesis.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-6126158200628707662008-11-16T23:40:00.000+00:002008-11-16T23:40:00.000+00:00Thank you so much for this! It is a most amusing a...Thank you so much for this! It is a most amusing and thoughtful story, titties are the first fixation for baby boys - stays with them forever. Gardens, sex, birth, betrayal, power, must be a universal story.<BR/>Thank you again for your wonderful ability to communicate at heart and soul level! I am always moved by your writing!Linda Suehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03070050388987072100noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-2076756713890360302008-11-16T21:28:00.000+00:002008-11-16T21:28:00.000+00:00'He sees man building houses five miles highan' pa...'He sees man building houses five miles high<BR/>an' painting smoke across the sky. He sees the blue dome over Eden<BR/>an' he sees it blow away all that hot air that's blown out by that dick in the white coat.'<BR/><BR/>Made me shiver oddly. And presumably this was before there was much awareness of global warming etc?<BR/><BR/>Like Sorlil, I often don't quite now whether to believe these stories, but I do because it's you telling them! I think you must have had a knack for drawing this stuff out from these children, and then for remembering and recording it.Lucyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09764296105901909328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-42388970939486122792008-11-16T16:37:00.000+00:002008-11-16T16:37:00.000+00:00The Garden is an archetype, it's tied to the arche...The Garden is an archetype, it's tied to the archetype of Paradise, lost or not. It turns up in work after work. From one depth psychology viewpoint, the entire environmental movement is motivated by the Garden archetype, and our desire to return to it, to create it. It's everywhere.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-86151897785733967292008-11-16T14:21:00.000+00:002008-11-16T14:21:00.000+00:00Thank you Dave for this fascinating story. Sadly ...Thank you Dave for this fascinating story. Sadly I am not surprised by it. Although we do not use terminology like 'educationally subnormal' anymore (thank God), a lot of the prejudices surrounding the less able continue under the surface. I speak from the experience of having been asked to take a child away from a school because he was unable to keep up with the others - at the age of five!Franceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12455584448055432913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-82984507046899604142008-11-16T14:13:00.000+00:002008-11-16T14:13:00.000+00:00Thanks also for answering my query about persimmon...Thanks also for answering my query about persimmon - I found that very interesting!Anairamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08626269831496499230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-43807010986211439232008-11-16T14:10:00.000+00:002008-11-16T14:10:00.000+00:00Interesting comment about children choosing those ...Interesting comment about children choosing those two stories from the Bible! I think they resonate so strongly with us because the one is about birth and creation, and the second about death and destruction (well, of some ...) Birth and death are the two definite and dependable points that mark our existence, the things that happen in between are merely diversions ...Anairamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08626269831496499230noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-74592722935882517592008-11-16T09:54:00.000+00:002008-11-16T09:54:00.000+00:00SorlilI have my fading notes to keep me on the str...Sorlil<BR/>I have my fading notes to keep me on the straight and narrow! (I also think you tend to credit me with a degree of imagination I would dearly love to have but cannot match!)<BR/><BR/>As for the terminology, before that it was <I>Mentally Deficient</I>> Children were divided into sheep and goats - those that were deemed <I>teachable</I> and were the responsibility of the education department, and those that <I>unteachable</I> and the responsibility of the health department. The latter did not qualify for teachers.Dave Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430484174826768488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2508563923634392703.post-18137130022746634432008-11-16T09:24:00.000+00:002008-11-16T09:24:00.000+00:00What an extraordinary story, dave, and you tell it...What an extraordinary story, dave, and you tell it so well. 'Educationally subnormal' - unbelievable that terms like these were used. The little boy's story itself is fascinating, surreal yet earthy. I'm never quite sure whether to believe these stories or not! Either way, you're definitely a story-teller.Marion McCreadyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04657757253873577465noreply@blogger.com